Posted by: YWB | May 28, 2010

I am an Ahmadi


You said, “Your kalima is different.”
I said, its “AshHadu an la ilaha illa-Llah, wa ashhadu anna Muhammadan Rasoolu-Llah

You said, “I am sure your Quran is different.”
And i gave you mine.

You were confused, “maybe your prayer is different.”
I showed you how I pray.

You wanted to end the argument, “but you don’t believe in Holy Prophet peace and blessing of Allah be upon him as Khataman Nabiyeen.”
And I wished I could tear my heart open and prove to you that this is not true.

You said,

I can’t call myself Muslim.
I can’t pray.
I can’t say “Inshallah” “Aslam-o-Alikum”
I can’t call “masjid” to my place of worships.
I can’t write, “Masallah” outside of my house.
I can’t call my fellow Muslims for Salat.
I can’t spread the teachings of my beloved Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

Because,

I am an Ahmadi.

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Responses

  1. It’s not a time to get panic, it’s time to think sensibly, work hard and believe in unity.

    i condemn yesterday’s attack but believe me 80% of 100% mullah also prefer to stay silent when asked about Ahmadi issue. 20% doesn’t represent our majority, every community consist of good and bad people. Situation is all messed up since 9/11, some countries attacked another country based on the presence of WMD and killed millions of people but didn’t found any WMD and just said it was a mistake which multiplied above mentioned 20% ratio, same as happening through drone attacks.

    Kind Regards…

  2. What is this argument all about? Get to where the difference lies in the core and not just the top layer. But in any case of arguments and discussion, taking lives, opening fire and bombing is not the right action and is fully condemned. Will discuss with you what the perception is. Its all about different perception and many people just talk without knowing. So be calm…

  3. i am sorry.i am sorry

  4. May Allah help us all unite as He intended

  5. Wow. That left me speechless. ❤

  6. yasser silence means they are with them…loss of 84 ppl’s life and so many other who were martyred before them was only cuz they didnt raise their voices… trying to depend human right isnt that wat islam teaches us…

    we are all alhumdolilah very united…you have to watch funeral ceremony of those who were martyred in lahore attack…heart touching…

    IS: the argument is that this attack is NOT nothing like any other terrorist attack… it is pampered by pakistan’s legislation which was passed in 1974 and that declared Ahmadis to be “Non-Muslim” and in 1984 further legislations was passed… i have one simple question for you…can any state pass this kind of legislations? can they punish people for practicing their faith… lets leave the argument of what is our difference…. forget what is our kalima and what is our holy quran and what we think about holy prophet… tell me simply is it okey to put a person behind bars for saying “AslamoAlikum” or for praying 5 time a day? for reading/writing Kalima, darood shareef??

    and pakistan’s media is playing equal role…forget about Taliban cuz we all know they are brainwashed what about these so called scholars who come on air and convince people how Ahmadis are “wajab ul qatal” and what about those friday sermons in which they are told killing an ahmadi will grant them a definite Jannat?
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/17757/ahmadi-man-murdered-in-narowal/
    http://www.alislam.org/egazette/press-release/3-ahmadi-muslim-killed-in-pakistan-in-barbaric-attack/
    Is this Islam?

  7. I would really like to know more. A Muslim family moved to our street and when my parents went to their home to welcome them and invite them to our masjid, they said they have their own masjid.

    So what is the difference then? I don’t mean to offend you but I am just really curious!

  8. i am not justifying the attack on them, i condemn it with full heart, but we Pak people always missed the point and then how our weakness got exploited.

    You need to search about Moulana Yousuf Ludhyanvi (one of the best Pakistani muslim scholar, I’ve read) he wrote number of books one of them gift for Qadyani, soon after he was being killed.

    Just search also for Nishter Park incident in 2006 how many got killed, so as in Moharram time to time.

    Constitution doesn’t say kill Qadyanis but the majority has every right to segregate our fundamentals about islam, Pak achieved it’s independence based on Islam and we cannot damage basic principle of Islam by calling Non-muslims as Muslims

  9. @yasser: but can they post pamphlets and have flyers on main roads saying that shias are wajib ul qatal? They will dare not even if they are thinking on similar lines.

    Constitution doesnt say this; but then the govt doesn’t protect basic living rights of Ahmadis either.

  10. Well these religious heated arguments are leading to nowhere… First make ur ownself gud i wud say…

    @YWB.. I didn’t say that the legislation is gud or those scholars r right… noone has right to kill anyone, put anyone behind bars nor declare Janna for anyone nor there is anything allowed as Wajab-ul-qatl… i hope i m clear with this to u… Pakistan was nor made for anything called specific muslim or Islamic country… This was all brought later… If you really want to be on the foot steps of Prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H) give respect to every religion they practice… you can advise others but not force anyone… you can make them understand but cannot kill them for not understanding… Understand some basic things and then start these heated and aggressive arguments… Noone is proving here that the action was gud or had been gud… Open your eyes and see everyone… People only starts getting angry when they see themselves as being attacked or their community or their religion… Everytime put urself in to other person’s shoes and then if you feel that pain everytime, you won’t end up here arguing… you talk here about religious deaths and martyrs… come and see with me people don’t even know about religion and just dieing coz of no food, feel pain for that humanity as well…

  11. Muslim Girl in short we believe Promised Massiah and Imaam Mehdi for which entire Ummah is waiting for has come. There are so many revolutions of Holy Prophet pbuh which are fulfilled by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who claimed to be Promised Massiah and Imaam Mehdi…..
    and no i am not offended.

    Yasser. i am not Qadiani, i have never even been to India or Qadian. I am pakistani and canadian… now that we are clear on this point… lets move on…

    consititution doesn’t say go around and kill “Ahmadis” but consititution does say an Ahmadi who even quotes from Quran is setting himself for 3years in prison, even writing bismillah will give you fines and imprisonment… so yeh it doesnt say kill Ahmadis but does work as a like fuel…. hope thats clear 🙂 btw Asma raised a good question…. do think about it….

    IS: Thanks for the support… i wasnt arguing only trying to clear up few things 🙂

  12. Awww…you are still the same old Snooty for me… 🙂

  13. 😦 It’s just sad.
    I’m sorry. I’m really very sorry. I wish their was a way to make everyone understand that violence and killings towards any sect won’t bring harmony.

  14. I wonder why we can’t all leave in harmony. Why don’t people realise that if we fight amongst ourselves, we WILL fall.

  15. Fortunately I have had a chance to spend loads of time with Ahmedi friends and scholars. I second whatever you have mentioned in your post but the thing is our Pakistani brethren have developed a midset that even if Angels dawn upon us from the heavens and tell us to embrace Ahmedis, we ll beat the hell out of those angels.

    None of us is ready to logically argue on this issue, whenever I tried to convince my friend they called me a misguided soul or I am turning into an Ahmedi. In such circumstances when their minds have been blocked nothings gonna work.

  16. @All

    Ha ha what a Joke, Just ask yourself if mirza gulam ahmed was an imam and mehdi why so he had such a dignified death by dropping in his own junk.

    @Tanzeel : You are a misguiaded soul, i can only pray for you to Allah to show you right path , Are you willing to have such dignified death like miraza ghulam ahmed or like his son, 12 year on death bed , [edit]

    Allah shows us everything in this life and it proves who is lair and who is not. so he showed every one what real face of mirza ghulam ahmed.

    Regarding the killing of them , as a Muslim I am against this act, Mascaraing non Muslim is not allowed even in Islam, but in reality ahmadies are coward they try to disguise themselves as Muslim just to make other people fool.

    @YWB : I think you need to read ahmadi books then you will know what their teachings are, Our fight is not with you our fight is with that person who said so many things against Prophet Muhammad PBUH, Other Prophets , Jesus Christ and even Allah. so what do you expect from Muslim to show sympathy to those who are followers [him]. As a Pakistani or Human being you can have our sympathies but as an anhamdi not. Some of my very close relatives were ahdamies, I have very closely observed them, What they do and what their teachings are ? According to the person you are following he is not even considering other non-ahmedies as Muslim, (Anwar-e-Khilafat, Page 90) and another time he writes that even 6 months old kid of non anhamdi is a kafir. ,I can provide your 100′s of reference from ahmadi books what their teachings are what this home cooked religion is, but the problem is this you can only analyze if you are neutral and your analysis is unbiased.

  17. http://www.ummatpublication.com/2010/06/06/idr3.html

  18. Sawj and you are the rare kind 😀

    Siras: nothing unusual….. according to a hadith Muslim Ummah will be divided up in 73 sects, 72 will be in fire and 1 will be in heaven….now everyone wants to be that ONE sect but they totally forgot HOW TO… sad isnt it ?

    Tanzeel: I am glad someone can think outside of box…its either people start disrespecting by calling names to Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and his successors or come up with stuff from Anti Ahamdiyyat websites… instead of reading Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s books… they just read few sentences and think they have the argument….
    its sad….
    thanks for dropping by and leaving your marks 🙂

  19. DC: i asked myself and the answer was Yes! “I BELIEVE” he is Imam Mehdi and Massiah. Its totally fine with me if you dont believe in him. but have some taqwa… associating lies have always been a habit of non believers and you are masallah a believer *i assume*

    I am sure you have heard this hadith many times, Holy prophet peace be upon him says “laisaal khabru kaal muayanti” which means ‘Hearsay is not like seeing.’

    do you have any proof of your allegation ? any piece of evidence ?
    here is reply to your question.
    How Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died …. hope this clears up few things …

    the kind of language you are using is very abusive and its really sad… this is the Muslims who claim to be the true representation of Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) who never used harsh words for even his enemies and you claim to be his true follower …

    As for suggesting me to read his books inshallah i am planning on doing that… have started few…

    Have you ever read any of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s books yourself because you are saying he said so many things abt Holy prophet peace be upon him? about Allah and about other prophets??? A believer doesnt believe in what he hears from other but he search for himself so i’ll just assume you DID actually READ his books, and i’ll also assume that you have read this as well ….

    Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad says [b] “The presence of (Allah) the Protector, is reflected in the (blessed) face (of the Holy Prophet)
    And his entire manner (and moral conduct) sparkles with the same (characteristic) magnificence. So, it is for this (reason) that he is loved (so much) and his (spiritual grace and) beautifully deserves
    That he (alone) should be adored (with all devotion), excluding the group of all (other) friends.” [/b]

    He also says “May Allah bless you, O Leader of the World!
    You rank the highest, and are the (bravest) leader of the brave.”

    These couplet shows his love for prophet so how can you say he disrespected him….

    Hazrat Mirza Bashir ud din Mahmood ahmad 2nd successor of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad said DID NOT at all say that Non Ahmadis who reject Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad out of the pale of Islam.

    Btw i am wondering according to your belief what are you going to call a person who will deny Mehdi and Massiah *the one you are waiting for* ???

    Thanks for condemning the attack and i am hoping next time you’ll be careful with your words….. “FOR ME” hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is Massiah and Mehdi.. *again thats totally fine if you disagree*… i would appreciate if you can respect my belief 🙂 I dont remember Hazoor (saw) EVER taught us to disrespect anyone or use abusive language towards anyone’s spiritual leader.

    May Allah give us more tolerance and patience and give us strength to follow the footstep of Holy prophet peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. (ameen)

  20. @YWB

    We as a sunnis/shias believe the arrival of Jesus, since as per muslims believe Jesus didn’t die infact Allah rose him to the sky, also we believe in Imam Mehdi appearence through Ahadees, you have to mention me single Ahadith where our and also your beloved prophet Muhammad mentioned Mirza Ghulam arrival.

    Islam spreaded mostly through Prophet Muhammad teachings and we all know during migration how Christians helped muslims travel to Medina when muslims told christs about prophet teaching to sahaba about Jesus.

    Now concentrate, do you think that Prophet Muhammad was not intellectual enough that he will make a claim of being the last prophet, though at the same time he will also say Imam Mehdi will appear during Hajj, and Jesus will also be Ummat-e-Muhammadi. if you deny the claim of Prophet Muhmmad being the last prophet which is one of the basic fundamental of muslims believe then i don’t think there is any similarity between muslims and Ahmadis.

    as mentioned in Quran in Surah Al-An’am [The Cattle] Ayat.42 Jo Log Allah kay hukum kee (jo bawasta Rasool kay) pahuncha , un ko Allah say darna chahiye, kay un kay upar duniya main koi afat na ajaye ya akhrat main koi dardnak azab nazal na ho jaye..

    Also read this Ahadith quoted by Abu Hurraira (R.A)

    Tum chor do (un baton main) jin ko main tumharay liye chor do (aur na bayan karo) keun kay woh log jo tum say pehlay thay, KASRAT-E-SAWAL aur apnay anbiya kay baray main IKHTILAF hee kee wajah say halak ho gaye, chunachay main tum ko kisi baat say rokoon tou ruk jao, aur jab kisi baat ka hukum doon, tou apni takat kay mutabiq us par amal karo

    i also suggest you to read Mulana Yousuf Ludhyanvi with peaceful mind.

    Also in above comment of yours i noticed you got the chance to quote Mirza Ghulam more as compared to Prophet Muhammad, hence is it that you know Mirza Ghulam quotations more than Ahadess of our Prophet.

    (do think about above lines with peace of mind)

    On the other hand if we sit for 10 minutes relaxly and then concentrate our mind in the existence, creation of God, we would feel overwhelmed and doubts raised in our mind becoming atheist,(do it like that i have tried it)

    though Quran says in Surah Rehman “Tum apnay Rab kee kon kon see naimaton ko jhutlao gay” then we see mountains, rivers, life, death and other things and we believe there is someone who is controlling the world

    for your information if you believe me or not i visited Ahmadi center 4 years back in Karachi and i was not impressed how they tried to convince us through study visa for UK,USA and through monetary.

    PS: i usually don’t involve myself in religious conversation on the blog, but your comment above forced me to write.

    Kind Regards

    May Allah give us ALL Hidayah.

  21. @YWB

    Ha ha good to hear that my language is offensive, Because truth is stranger than fiction. It is matter of Holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH because you are directly attacking on his seat as a last prophet, I can not give you or your false prophet any type of respect.

    I have believe that Hazrat Eissa A.S will comeback to this world from heaven one day. But he will not come back as a prophet he will come as a follower of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. Imam Mehdi will also come but he will appear during Hajj as mentioned by Yaser. All indications are described in Ahadeeth.

    The reality is that qadiyanis will never try to read Quran or Ahadeeth as if they will read it they will not be able to defend their own fake ideology and every thing will be clear in front of them.

    Regarding proof of your [edit] prophet and [edit] mehdi, I read from your own qadiyani books that his own father in law mir nasir claimed that he died of cholera. for your information read book, Mandarja Hayaat Nasir Page – 14.

    Regarding his claims you need to read very carefully about his life and what he claimed. Just from your own books i read he was a collection of multiple diseases such as permanent head ach, hysteria , lose motion, diabetics, even his eyes were always half closed. He was even having mental attacks. [edit], these are such example i read from your {Seerat – AL Mehdi }

    I really makes me laugh this kind of person we will not even take him as a servant and you people are so blind that you are thinking him as a spiritual leader.

    [characterisation not allowed]

    If you need those letters as a proof , I can send a copy of those to your email. Is that enough to open your eyes ????? But if Allah has put a lock on your heart how you will get a guidance.

    PS : I dont do any type of religious debates against any one specially those who are non muslim. They have their own religion as a muslim we dont interfere in their religion. But qadiyaniat is a religion of satan , they spread their evil words on name of islam. they call themselves as muslim and think all other muslims are infidels.

  22. I am a bit busy with work and mosque stuff… inshallah am gona get back to you by this weekend 🙂

  23. @Yasser sorry i was in the middle of some stuff…had to sort it out first…..

    We as a sunnis/shias believe the arrival of Jesus, since as per muslims believe Jesus didn’t die infact Allah rose him to the sky, also we believe in Imam Mehdi appearence through Ahadees, you have to mention me single Ahadith where our and also your beloved prophet Muhammad mentioned Mirza Ghulam arrival.

    First of all, Quran is so clear regarding the death of Jesus(as) that you may not find such level of proof of other prophets’ death in Quran. and nobody comes back from the dead. There are ahadis of 2nd coming of Jesus(as). It doesn’t mean that he himself will come back. Can you provide any proof from the history of prophets and messengers that any prophet was taken away from this world and then sent back again. This is against the sunnah of Allah. Isa-ibn-mariam and Messiah are the titles given to a person who will appear in the ummah to revive the real spirit of islam.
    As far as mention of ‘isa ibn mariam’ in hadith is concerned, then there is a precedent for it. In old testament Malachi 3:23,24)
    “23) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD.
    24) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers; lest I come and smite the land with utter destruction.”

    Did Elijah (prophet elias(as)) came back himself. Instead Yahya (john the Baptist)(as) and Jesus(as) were sent. Jews were waiting for eliajah and the messiah who will bring back the kingdom of David to them. That didn’t happen.

    Moreover, the hadith mentioned by dar-e-qutni about the lunar and solar eclipse in the month of Ramadhan occurred twice after the claim of his mahdi and messiah These eclipses occurred in 1894 and 1895. once in the east and once in the west and on the same dates as predicted in the prophecy of that hadith. An in depth analysis of this prophecy and its fulfillment is discussed in Rohani Khazain vol. 17 p 132-143

    Islam spreaded mostly through Prophet Muhammad teachings and we all know during migration how Christians helped muslims travel to Medina when muslims told christs about prophet teaching to sahaba about Jesus…

    Are you trying to say that Christians were kind to muslims because they had similar views on Jesus(as). I am sorry to say that is incorrect. The Christians were kind since Quranic verses recited to them that spoke highly of Jesus(as) and his mother mariam(as). If muslims and Christians had similar beliefs regarding Jesus(as) . why do you think the mubahila incident of Najran happened?

    Now concentrate, do you think that Prophet Muhammad was not intellectual enough that he will make a claim of being the last prophet, though at the same time he will also say Imam Mahdi will appear during Hajj, and Jesus will also be Ummat-e-Muhammadi.
    if you deny the claim of Prophet Muhmmad being the last prophet which is one of the basic fundamental of muslims believe then i don’t think there is any similarity between muslims and Ahmadis.

    We firmly believe that the Mahdi and Messiah was supposed to be from the ummah. Jesus(as) was not the among the ummah of holy prophet(as). He was a messenger to bani Israel and was subjected to Torah and Bible(injeel). Prophet Muhammad(as) is the last prophet since he has brought the last divine law to the mankind and was sent for the whole world. His shariah and sunnah is to remain as a source of guidance till the day of judgment. His kalmia is to stay forever. We believe all that. And we also believe that he prophesized about mahdi and messiah also told us that “Imam-i-kum minkum”(your Imam from within you(ummah)). This mahdi and imam will be a follower of prophet Muhammad(pbuh) in a hadith of sahih muslim called him nabi-ullah four times.

    as mentioned in Quran in Surah Al-An’am [The Cattle] Ayat.42 Jo Log Allah kay hukum kee (jo bawasta Rasool kay) pahuncha , un ko Allah say darna chahiye, kay un kay upar duniya main koi afat na ajaye ya akhrat main koi dardnak azab nazal na ho jaye..

    Also read this Ahadith quoted by Abu Hurraira (R.A)

    Tum chor do (un baton main) jin ko main tumharay liye chor do (aur na bayan karo) keun kay woh log jo tum say pehlay thay, KASRAT-E-SAWAL aur apnay anbiya kay baray main IKHTILAF hee kee wajah say halak ho gaye, chunachay main tum ko kisi baat say rokoon tou ruk jao, aur jab kisi baat ka hukum doon, tou apni takat kay mutabiq us par amal karo

    What are you trying to pull here? We believe in every single verse of the holy Quran and sunnah of the prophet(pbuh). What is your Question here?

    i also suggest you to read Mulana Yousuf Ludhyanvi with peaceful mind.

    OK i will, and I will ask you to read the book ‘Rah-e-Huda’ by M. K. Khalid. This book was written in response to Ludyhanvi sahib’s book ‘Qadianoon ko Dawat-e-Islam’
    Also read ‘Zahqal-Batil’ (

    ) written in response to Zia Government’s white paper named ‘Qadianiat- a serious threat to Islam’ and see how that white paper is white washed.

    Also in above comments of yours I noticed you got the chance to quote Mirza Ghulam more as compared to Prophet Muhammad, hence is it that you know Mirza Ghulam quotations more than Ahadess of our Prophet.

    In my above comments DC had allegation that Promised Massiah Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad said “things against Prophet Muhammad PBUH, Other Prophets , Jesus Christ and even Allah” so i was trying to prove DC by showing him the writings of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) and was trying to tell him how much love and affection Promised Massiah had for the beloved Prophet peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) refered to himself as a “ghulaamo kaa ghulaam” of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon.

    (do think about above lines with peace of mind)
    On the other hand if we sit for 10 minutes relaxly and then concentrate our mind in the existence, creation of God, we would feel overwhelmed and doubts raised in our mind becoming atheist,(do it like that i have tried it)
    though Quran says in Surah Rehman “Tum apnay Rab kee kon kon see naimaton ko jhutlao gay” then we see mountains, rivers, life, death and other things and we believe there is someone who is controlling the world

    Are you implying that Islam Ahmadiyya beliefs are just based on logic? That is not true. We seek our guidance from Quran and sunnah of the holy prophet(pbuh) and all of our beliefs are based on these two resources

    for your information if you believe me or not i visited Ahmadi center 4 years back in Karachi and i was not impressed how they tried to convince us through study visa for UK,USA and through monetary.

    That is NOT how Ahmadiyya missions work. I personally know few people who are very egger to join Ahmadiyyat but our Khalifah said that they should pray to Allah for 40 days and do istekara and read books of Promised Massiah and than decide.

  24. no problem in late reply but to be frank your reply flow, logic, references didn’t convince me for a single second

    Just to summarize

    yes i am implying that Ahmadiyaa belief are just based on false logic.

    I’ve read number of Ahmadiyat books and i am surprised to read that they mentioned who don’t believe in Ahmadiyat are non-muslims, but on the other hand Ahmadis market themselves muslims and want to include themselves with sunnis, shias

    I am certainly impressed IF this is the way Ahmadiyat works which you have defined that do istikeara and pray to Allah for 40 days and read books of proimsed massiyah?

    (that’s why number of Ahmadis in Pakistan and in world are in small numbers)

    i hope none of my sentence has hurt your feelings, for you i might be a faithless and for me you are faithless, i have a believe that Hidayat denay wala to Allah hai, may Allah give both of us Hidayat, but the more number number of Ahmadis i see the more power Allah give me to follow the defined path of Prophet Muhammad i.e Dawat, Tableegh and Khatam-e-Nabwat.

    Regards.

  25. You have mentioned followings :

    First of all, Quran is so clear regarding the death of Jesus(as) that you may not find such level of proof of other prophets’ death in Quran :

    Provide Proof ????

    Dont try to mention anything from bible or any thing else. try to clearly mention any verse from Quran because bible is not a relible source it has been changed and after Islam all previous religions are have been rejected. For your clearance read about Fattah Makkah and what were word of Prophet Muhammad PBUH.
    Ascension of Essa (AS) Alive by Allah

    وَقَوۡلِهِمۡ إِنَّا قَتَلۡنَا ٱلۡمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ٱبۡنَ مَرۡيَمَ رَسُولَ ٱللَّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَـٰكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمۡ‌ۚ وَإِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱخۡتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ لَفِى شَكٍّ۬ مِّنۡهُ‌ۚ مَا لَهُم بِهِۦ مِنۡ عِلۡمٍ إِلَّا ٱتِّبَاعَ ٱلظَّنِّ‌ۚ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينَۢا (١٥٧) بَل رَّفَعَهُ ٱللَّهُ إِلَيۡهِ‌ۚ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمً۬ا (١٥٨)

    That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”; ― but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.― (157) Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. (158).

    Descent of Essa (AS) on earth and death

    In the same context in Aya 159 Surat un Nisa Allah subhanahu wa Ta’ala is mentioning that those (the Jews) who rejected his ministry and boasted of killing him and those (Christians) who are confused and uncertain about his fate will all recognize and believe in him before his death.

    وَإِن مِّنۡ أَهۡلِ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبِ إِلَّا لَيُؤۡمِنَنَّ بِهِۦ قَبۡلَ مَوۡتِهِۦ‌ۖ وَيَوۡمَ ٱلۡقِيَـٰمَةِ يَكُونُ عَلَيۡہِمۡ شَہِيدً۬ا (١٥٩)

    And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his [i.e., Jesus’s] death; and on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness against them.― (159)

    We know for sure that as of today the Jews and Christians (People of the Book) do not believe in the true nature of Jesus Christ and believe that he died on the Cross. All this has to come to an end and both the Jews and Christians alike are bound to believe in the true nature of Jesus Christ (Essa alayhis salam) before his death.

    This will happen prior to Qiyama and is considered as one of the major signs of Qiyama. The Aya 61 in Sura Az-Zukhruf refers to it.

    وَإِنَّهُ ۥ لَعِلۡمٌ۬ لِّلسَّاعَةِ فَلَا تَمۡتَرُنَّ بِہَا وَٱتَّبِعُونِ‌ۚ هَـٰذَا صِرَٲطٌ۬ مُّسۡتَقِيمٌ۬ (٦١)

    And indeed he (Jesus) shall be (a sign) for the knowledge of the Hour (of Judgment): therefore be not in doubt about it, but follow Me: this is a Straight Path. (61)

    Ahadith on this subject:

    عَنْ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ أَنَّ سَعِيدَ بْنَ الْمُسَيَّبِ سَمِعَ أَبَا هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لَيُوشِكَنَّ أَنْ يَنْزِلَ فِيكُمْ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ حَكَمًا عَدْلًا فَيَكْسِرَ الصَّلِيبَ وَيَقْتُلَ الْخِنْزِيرَ وَيَضَعَ الْجِزْيَةَ وَيَفِيضَ الْمَالُ حَتَّى لَا يَقْبَلَهُ أَحَدٌ حَتَّى تَكُونَ السَّجْدَةُ الْوَاحِدَةُ خَيْرًا مِنْ الدُّنْيَا وَمَا فِيهَا ثُمَّ يَقُولُ أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ وَاقْرَءُوا إِنْ شِئْتُمْ وَإِنْ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا لَيُؤْمِنَنَّ بِهِ قَبْلَ مَوْتِهِ وَيَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ يَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا ( رواه البخاري )

    Ibn Shehab narrates from Saeed ibn Musyyeb that he heard Abu Huraira (RA) saying that the messenger of Allah (SAW) said, “By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler); he will break the Cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizya (i.e. taxation taken from non Muslims). Money will be so much in abundance that nobody will accept it, hence a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) will be better than the whole world and whatever is in it.” Abu Huraira added “Check this out (by yourself), if you wish, and recite (this verse of the Holy Book), — “And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) Before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness against them.” See Sura 4 Ayah 159 (Reported by Bukhari)

    The same Hadith is also reported by Imam Muslim with several chains of narrators.

    عَنْ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي نَافِعٌ مَوْلَى أَبِي قَتَادَةَ الْأَنْصَارِيِّ أَنَّ أَبَا هُرَيْرَةَ قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ كَيْفَ أَنْتُمْ إِذَا نَزَلَ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ فِيكُمْ وَإِمَامُكُمْ مِنْكُمْ ( رواه بخاري و مسلم )

    Ibn Shehab narrated that Nafe’ the freed slave of abi Qatada Al-Ansari informed me that Abu Huraira (RA) Said that the messenger of Allah (SAW) said “How (awesome) would be your situation when the son of Mary will descend amongst you and there will be an Imam from amongst you? Reported by Bukhari and Muslim.

    ابْنِ جُرَيْجٍ قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي أَبُو الزُّبَيْرِ أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ جَابِرَ بْنَ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ يَقُولُ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ يَقُولُ لَا تَزَالُ طَائِفَةٌ مِنْ أُمَّتِي يُقَاتِلُونَ عَلَى الْحَقِّ ظَاهِرِينَ إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ قَالَ فَيَنْزِلُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فَيَقُولُ أَمِيرُهُمْ تَعَالَ صَلِّ لَنَا فَيَقُولُ لَا إِنَّ بَعْضَكُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ أُمَرَاءُ تَكْرِمَةَ اللَّهِ هَذِهِ الْأُمَّةَ (رواه مسلم)

    Ibn Juraij said that Abu Zubair informed me that he heard Jabir Ibn. ‘Abdullah (RA) saying: “I heard the Messenger of Allah (May peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) say: A section of my people will not cease fighting for the Truth and will prevail till the Day of Resurrection. He (further) said: Jesus son of Mary would then descend and their (Muslim’s) commander would invite him to come and lead them in prayer, but he would say: No, some amongst you are commanders over some (amongst you). This is the honor from Allah for this Ummah” (Reported by Muslim)

    عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ لَيْسَ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَهُ نَبِيٌّ يَعْنِي عِيسَى وَإِنَّهُ نَازِلٌ فَإِذَا رَأَيْتُمُوهُ فَاعْرِفُوهُ رَجُلٌ مَرْبُوعٌ إِلَى الْحُمْرَةِ وَالْبَيَاضِ بَيْنَ مُمَصَّرَتَيْنِ كَأَنَّ رَأْسَهُ يَقْطُرُ وَإِنْ لَمْ يُصِبْهُ بَلَلٌ فَيُقَاتِلُ النَّاسَ عَلَى الْإِسْلَامِ فَيَدُقُّ الصَّلِيبَ وَيَقْتُلُ الْخِنْزِيرَ وَيَضَعُ الْجِزْيَةَ وَيُهْلِكُ اللَّهُ فِي زَمَانِهِ الْمِلَلَ كُلَّهَا إِلَّا الْإِسْلَامَ وَيُهْلِكُ الْمَسِيحَ الدَّجَّالَ فَيَمْكُثُ فِي الْأَرْضِ أَرْبَعِينَ سَنَةً ثُمَّ يُتَوَفَّى فَيُصَلِّي عَلَيْهِ الْمُسْلِمُونَ ( رواه ابو داؤد)

    Abu Huraira (RA) narrated The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace be upon him). He will descent (to the earth). When you see him, recognize him: a man of medium height, reddish white (complexion), wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish, during his time, all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Dajjal and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him.” (Reported by Abu Daud)

    Dont try to prove me that your so called masiah mirza did not said anything stupid. You are a misguided soul, who is just trying to prove that a lier was a prophet and imam. Your books are completeley without any type of logic.

    By showing you an ayaat is a way you khalifa are shutting your mouth that you should not argue about their work or them or false prophet. because they know if they will let people think about it, people will know the reality.

    I am still waiting for you reply. about character of your first khalifa 😉

  26. It didnt convince you because you already made up your mind that this responce is from an Ahmadi so its ‘based on false logic’

    Can you quote where you read that Ahmadis believe Non Ahmadis are Non Muslim …

    The word Kafir means “one who denies” a person is a kafir of Promised Massiah as when he doesn accept him but he is not a kafir of Holy Prophet pbuh so thats why we refer to that person Non Ahmadi Muslim… meaning they are muslim but not ahmadi….

    What are you going to call those muslims who will still not accept Promised Massiah and Mehdi. (the one you are waiting for) ???

    About how people accept Ahmadiyyat… I’ll tell you about my own grandfather… He started Tahajat namaz when he was in grade 10, he never missed even a single prayer in his whole life. He started having dreams of himself being in Macca and he saw Promised Massiah in his dreams and he kept having dreams. He did lots of research lots of prayers and thats how he accepted Ahmadiyyat. I know a very close family friend who also did a lot of research and wanted to accept Ahmadiyyat but he was told he should wait for few years before he decide and that he need to read more books and do more research…. if it was about numbers they would’ve given bait forms instantly ….

  27. Can you provide any proof from the history of prophets and messengers that any prophet was taken away from this world and then sent back again.

    No i cannot provide you, also i cannot provide you about any prophet born like Issa ibn-e- Maryam who born without father

    First of all, Quran is so clear regarding the death of Jesus(as) that you may not find such level of proof of other prophets’ death in Quran

    i agree Quran is clear about Issa, and also clarified by Muhammad in his ahadess that Issa never died, Allah rose him to the sky, Quran mentioned so much about Jesus, because as you know Christs believed Jesus is Allah’s son, hence Allah clarified again n again, also in surah ikhlas

    Isa-ibn-mariam and Messiah are the titles given to a person who will appear in the ummah to revive the real spirit of islam

    sorry, you are wrong again, Messiah was the title given to Jesus because Allah gave him power to cure the uncurable, also Isa-Ibn-Mariam was given to Jesus because Mariam never married, now again Tum apnay rab ke kon kon see naimaton ko jhutlao gay

  28. @YWB

    Read it with open eyes and have fun ! all golden words from your own books 😉

    It is our duty, not to take non-Ahmadis as Muslims, nor should we say prayers with them, because they deny one of the God’s Apostles (Anwaar e Khilafat P. 99)

    While the non-Ahmadis are infidels, so are their six-month old children also . And as infidels they cannot be buried in the graveyard of the Ahmadis. (Akbhar Paigham-e-Sulah: 16th of Aug 1936)

    I’m hearing the echo of the words of the Promised Christ (Mirza Qadiyani himself). He has said that it is not that our only difference with other people lies in the dispute about Christ’s death & such other issues. He has said that we have differences with others about God, Muhammad (Sallallaho–Alaihe–Wassallam), Holy Quran, Prayers, Fasting, Hajj, Zakat etc. and he defined in detail all these differences – (Khutba Mirza Mehmood Alfazal: V: 19, N: 13)

    Did Christ not separate himself & his followers from the Jews & made a separate nation? All the Prophets have formed their distinctive nations & groups. Have they not separated themselves from others? So, if in keeping with the demand of prophet hood Hazrat Mirza sahib, who is a Prophet, has separated himself from others, what wrong has he done.(Alfazal)

    Whoever is not sure of our success is in fact, a bastard. He wouldn’t be a legitimate man.(Roohani Khazain: V: 18, P: 31)

    My opponents were named as the Christian, Jews & the Infidels.(Roohani Khazain: V: 18, P: 382) ( AS WE ARE ALSO OPPONENTS OF this lair so what we are ? )
    Every Muslim values and appreciates my books, gets knowledge from them & confirms & accepts my message (‘dawat’). But only the sons of the Prostitutes didn’t confirm & accept me.(Roohani Khazain: V: 5, P: 547-548)

    Our enemies have become like the boars in the jungle & their woman have become worse than bitches.(Roohani Khazain: V: 5, P: 153)

    So nice language a so called prophet is saying in rohani khazain.

    [b]IS THIS ENOUGH OR YOU NEED MORE ?? [/b]

  29. The word Kafir means “one who denies” a person is a kafir of Promised Massiah as when he doesn accept him but he is not a kafir of Holy Prophet pbuh so thats why we refer to that person Non Ahmadi Muslim… meaning they are muslim but not ahmadi….

    Twisting and playing with words is another thing i’ve noticed with Ahmadis, since you have accepted your books has written us kafirs, i don’t have anything to elaborate regarding this

    I’ll tell you about my own grandfather… He started Tahajat namaz when he was in grade 10, he never missed even a single prayer in his whole life. He started having dreams of himself being in Macca and he saw Promised Massiah in his dreams and he kept having dreams. He did lots of research lots of prayers and thats how he accepted Ahmadiyyat.

    i hope you know the procedure of Hajj, Ibrahim(a.s) while performing faced Infidel at three different places in the face of Angel, praying 5 times and tahajjud doesn’t mean everything when the faith is not strong enough,i’ve seen people praying 5 times but still committing heinous act of zina, i am an ordinary person just like your grand father and even being in Mecca i face Shaitani Khayalat, but it doesn’t mean i got confused, i say la haul wala quwwah illah billah, Prophet muhammad said the more you fight with Infidel the more deeds you are committing

  30. @ Yasser

    Assalam o Alaikum Warehmatullah

    Yasser sb you seems to be decent and edjucated person and sometime difficult to find in 80% of uneducated society of Pakistan. So I thought I ll try to add my bits as well.

    My post is regarding following query made by:

    *****************************************
    YesterDayWasBetter:
    “The word Kafir means “one who denies” a person is a kafir of Promised Massiah as when he doesn accept him but he is not a kafir of Holy Prophet pbuh so thats why we refer to that person Non Ahmadi Muslim… meaning they are muslim but not ahmadi….”

    And you replied with following:

    “Twisting and playing with words is another thing i’ve noticed with Ahmadis, since you have accepted your books has written us kafirs, i don’t have anything to elaborate regarding this”
    *****************************************

    In my personal opinion you lack with the basic knowledge of word Kafir and word Non Muslim. And perhaps that has lead to make up a mind. Perhaps you do not want to elaborate further on this point but I feel obliged to at least clear one side of the story. The word Non Muslim is used for anyone who is not a Muslim ie does not believe in Holy Prophet of Islam and does not practice the faith. However Muslim can commit Kufr as well. For example a lot of Muslim drink Alcohol and they are commiting Kufr ie you can call them Kafir as well. Their faith tells them not to drink and they drink. You cannot call them Non Muslims now can you?

    Now very similarly we have a very simple, logical, ethical, sharai approach to this matter and you have absolute right to disagree with me. We say that Holy Prophet of Islam Hadhrat Muhmmad Mustapha SAW fortold that Messiah will come and it will be the duty of every Muslim to do his bait. We say that Messiah has come and we have accepted him as this was part of the faith.

    However at the same point we also say that non Ahmadi Muslims who have rejected him are HIS Kafir. They have rejected him in other words they have rejected what was fortold and they are the Kafir of Messiah.

    Now lets take this with different approach. Tomorrow Jesus son of Marry descends from heaven (Nouzobillah) and you accept him to be the Messiah. But I say no he is not a Messiah and I am happy with Quran and Sunnah and following Holy Prophet SAW only. What will you call me? Kafir or a Non Muslim? If you call me non Muslim I will recite Shahadah front of you and will tell you that I follow Holy Prophet SAW and Quran and Hadith but I do not consider this man to be Messiah. What will you call me Kafir or Non Muslim?

    I hope this would have helped in understanding this particular issue.

  31. @ DC (Dumb Character) on June 6, 2010 at 5:27 am

    Assalam o Alaikum Warehmatullah

    You have only made allegations have not provided any proof.

    And you know that very well that you dont have any proof. Lets count what I say you have lied in your post:

    #1 – ..dignified death by dropping in his own junk..
    #2 – ..12 year on death bed , eating his own shit..
    #3 – ..patient of hysteria, hallucination..
    #4 – ..died of cholera..
    #5 – ..ahmadies are coward..
    #6 – ..person who said so many things against Prophet Muhammad PBUH, Other Prophets , Jesus Christ and even Allah..

    Above are your biggest 6 lies. I can only pray that Lanatallah e Alal Kazebeen. May Allah guide you and your children to the right path.

    Let me make things easier for you. Just to prove your innocence just prove Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (A.S) died of cholera and this is not a dignified death. Lets see how truthful you are.

  32. Ha ha !
    Dedoxicated !

    Your friend is not publishing my comments . so there is no point to provide any proof.

    I have already provided him enough. which he is not publishing on blog. so chill and have fun !

  33. As I have already told you the reason for not approving your comments was you don’t care if you are disrespecting someone or not.

    #1 rules for having a decent debate is you respect everyone’s spirtual leaders. Respecting someone doesnt change your faith!

    @d-tox..ed I have approved his comments.

  34. @YWB @Detoxicated

    First of all , My OPEN MESSAGE TO YOU .
    Tell me which type of proofs do you need ? From your own books, Magazines ? Quotes from your own People ? Quran ? Ahadith ?

    What do you think is trustworthy ?

    @Detoxicated .

    For your all quations i have full reference from your qadiyani books and magazines and i can provide you that any time inshAllah. but will you be able to accept that ?

    Like before YWB asked two questions related to LIFE OF JESUS and What qadiyani think about non ahmadis, I have tried my best to provide you all proofs with reference to Quran and Ahadith and some refrence from your books where they are quoting non-ahmadies as Kafir.

    So just think again and let me know, i will try my best to provide you full reference.

    I will also pray to Allah to guide us toward right path. and Lanatallah e Alal Kazebeen.

  35. By: DC (Dumb Character) on June 17, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Dont run off from the topic. I was very concise with my request. A proof could be anything. Bring whatever you like or you can.

    Lets remind you again what I requested from you accusations:

    “Just to prove your innocence just prove Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (A.S) died of cholera and this is not a dignified death.”

  36. @DC

    Or I can make this more easier for you…just prove me that the person who die from cholera dies a non-dignified death!!!….

    Remember this is your claim that Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (A.S) died due to cholera and it is not a dignified death.

  37. @Detoxicated

    It really makes me laugh that you are completely unaware of your own books. according to writings of mriza ghulam ahmed HAiZA or cholera is a punishment of Allah who is comming upon those who are infedals. Just read about the Mubahila of Molvi Sana Ullah when mirza ghulam lost in mubahila then as per his habit he prayed that any one of us who is lier will die of cholera.

    Last Words of Mirza was “Meer Sahib Mujhey Wabai Haiza ho Gaya hey” (Meer I have been infected with cholera). Reference : Mandarja Hayaat Nasir Page 14 (Nasir was father in law of mirza) 😉

  38. @ DC

    The book Hayat e Nasir is written in third person. Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was not a physician/doctor to declare that he may have had Cholera… Infact the doctors reports were completely the opposite. Hence it is likely that Nasir sb may have heard it incorrectly.

    Here you have to agree on two points:

    1 – Hadhrat Promised Messiah AS was not a doctor to declare he has cholera.
    2 – The words I am suffering from cholera has not been written in any Promised Messiah book but in another book written by his father in Law who said this is what he may have heard.

    Now I will prove it to you why Promised Messiah did not die of Cholera:

    (!!!)Hzt. sb (A.S) DIED IN THE LARGE COSMOPOLITAN CITY OF LAHORE, WHERE DURING HIS LAST MOMENTS HE WAS ATTENDED BY SEVERAL EMINENT DOCTORS, INCLUDING Dr. Sayyid Muhammad Hussain Shah, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY COL. DR. D SUTHERLAND, THE CHIEF CIVIL MEDICAL SURGEON OF LAHORE WHO WAS ALSO A PROFESSOR AT THE KING EDWARD MEDICAL COLLEGE LAHORE.
    _________________________________________

    (!!!)HAD THERE BEEN EVEN A HINT OF CHOLERA,

    HIS BODY, THE HOUSE WHERE HE PASSED AWAY AND EVERYONE WHO CAME INTO CONTACT WITH HIM WOULD HAVE BEEN IMMEDIATELY QUARANTINED DUE TO THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE DISEASE WHICH HAD BEEN RAMPANT IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD CAUSING A LOT OF MISERY AND DEATH.
    _________________________________________

    (!!!)HIS BODY WOULD HAVE BEEN CREMATED UNDER STRICT GOVERNMENT CONTROLAND SUPERVISION, AS WAS THE CUSTOM, TO PREVENT AND CONTROL FURTHER SPREAD OF TRHE DISEASE.
    _________________________________________

    (!!!)A CERTIFICATE OF DEATH WAS REQUIRED TO TRANSPORT HIS BODY BY PUBLIC TRANSPORT (RAIL) TO BATALA, AND THEREAFTER TO QADIAN, THIS WAS ESPECIALLY SO MORE BECAUSE THE MULLAHS HAD ALREADY SRARTED TO SPREAD THEIR LIES.
    _________________________________________

    (!!!)THE CERTIFICATE WAS ISSUED AFTER CAREFULL AND NECCESARY CHECK UP, AND SIGNED BY DR. CO. D SUTHERLAND, CERTIFYING THAT THE CASE OF DEATH WAS INTESTINAL IRRITATION (OR DIARRHOEA).
    _________________________________________

    (!!!)MANY OF HIS GRIEVING FOLLOWERS WERE GATHERED AND ALLOWED CLOSE CONTACT WITH HIS BODY IN LAHORE, AND WHILE BEEING TRANSPORTED BY RAIL TO BATALA, FROM WHERE AN EVEN BIGGER CROWD HAD GATHERED TO TRANSPORT HIS BODY BY FOOT 18+ MILES TO QADIAN. THIS WOLD NEVER HAVE BEEN ALLOWED BY THE GOVERNMENT AUTHORITIES IF THERE WAS EVEN A HINT THAT CHOLERA WAS TGE CAUSE OF DEATH.

    A reference from Hayaat e Nasir is irrelevent when a qualified DOCTOR is saying that he has not passed away from the pandemic diesease.

    Hayaat Nasir is a Bibliography and in my personal opinion there can be a room for error in this. Second point is how did Hadhrat sb (A.S) got to know its CHOLERA? Even if he said that then it may have been incorrect thought.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    You added another issue on your allegation; The Mubahila with Molvi Sanaullah. This issue can be discussed later.

    Hence keep the issues precise in this small space. Dont move onto another topic if you cannot come to terms on this particular topic.

  39. You have mentiond all name which i already read in other references.

    So i can conclude one thing from your post. You dont consider meer nasir as a reliable source for information. second you are accepting by your words that mirza ghulam ahmed was not capable enough to diagnose his own disease.

    I am totally agree with you on above statements.

    but i think you should recall your statements again because these are very strong words for me because if some one is imam mehdi or maseeh and sent from Allah, then how he was not even aware of himself. Why qadiyanis are not trusting his last words which are narrated by his closest relative and person who was with him at the time of his death.

    2- How it’s possible for a person that he is dying and he will write in his book that i am dying of cholera, so this is the reason

    3- Its up to you what ever your say he was died of what ever. DIARRHEA , he was suffering from DIARRHEA through out his life. I am a medical practitioner also and anyone who is already suffering from diarrhea , it can not cause its death suddenly, rather something else some stronger thing is required to choke your internal system.

    Who were those Doctors ? Were they any neutral third party doctors or those were qadiyani ? if they were qadiyani’s their report is also not trust worthy. you know it very well that how it is easier to manipulate medical reports and records.

    But from your initial statement i have got my answer that mirza was not a doctor that’s why he was unable to state that he was infected by cholera. the same why we are also stating that he was not an imam and maseeh or prophet that’s why his teachings are also not acceptable. because his claim was false;

    Just read your own reply with cool mind. May Allah provide us guidance. Aameen

  40. Dying declaration is universally accepted in any court of law as a truthful deposition of a dying man. Following dying declaration of Mirza Ghulam is an irrevocable testimony of the acceptance of his supplication – to kill of that. Mir Nasir Nawab, father-in-law of Mirza Ghulam was at his bedside. He had suddenly developed diarrhea and vomiting (Cholera!). Mir Nasir in his biography, Hayat-e-Nasir, wrote:

    “When i reached Hazrat Saheb and saw his condition, then he addressed me and said:
    ‘MIR SAHEB. I HAVE DEVELOPED EPIDEMIC CHOLERA’.
    I think After that He (MIRZA) did not say anything clear till he died next day at 10 am.”
    (Hayat-e-Nasir, p.14)

    Now my dear Ahmadis/Qadianis!! This is the testimony of the father-in-law of Mirza Ghulam, also his follower, who had been beside his death bed till he died. Nowhere he mentions that Mirza said what you mentioned in your story. Also do not forget that Mirza Ghulam had studied Tibb (Medicine) and when he said cholera, he knew what he was saying. Either you tell me that your prophet/reformer lied at the time of his death or else if he didn’t then it is a fact that he was afflicted by Cholera and died of it. What other condition can produce such severe dehydration especially when all the doctors were present beside him? Amazing that you are saying that it was a minor condition which result in such severe dehydration
    enough to kill him. Do not forget that Mirza Ghulam had always had diarrhea due to his diabetes, so an ordinary illness would not cause dehydration.

    Other thing worth noting was that his last words were ‘I have Epidemic Cholera’ according to his father in law and not Kalima or the name of Allah. You can imagine the realization that must have dawn on Mirza Ghulam at that final moment that finally he has been struck by the most dreadful sign of God’s Anger – Cholera – and worst part of this realization was that God sealed his tongue and lips with intense dehydration so that he had no chance of repenting from his fabrications/lies
    and no chance of uttering the Kalima. What a punishment!

    The proof? Read the following:

    “Huzoor could not talk two hours before death. Dr Mirza Yaqoob Baig and Dr Syed Mohammed Hussein Shah were the treating physician. Huzoor asked for paper and wrote on it: I have too much dryness. I can’t talk.” and some other words he scribbled which could not be read.”
    (Statement of ‘SAHABI’ of Mirza Ghulam Mohammed Sadiq Qadiani, Akhbar alFazl Qadian, vol.25 No.274, dated 24th November 1937)

    Very distressing indeed! But a sign for those who want to heed it.

  41. @ DC

    watch this link …. its very short and only directed to your question….

  42. Good ! Nice Video and Nice Reply ! only for those who have not read his claims and history

    Just leave this topic. as from reply from detoxicated I have already got my answer. Just read his reply and my posts with cool mind.

    You asked me for proof , i provided you those from book of his so claimed sahabi and father in law , if you dont accept it is entirely up to you.

    So What Next ?????

  43. @ DC on June 19, 2010 at 10:45 pm

    Don’t move on to any other topic until you resolve this one first. So staye here, I have plenty more to say on this topic, particularly on some on further points you raised.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You said “So i can conclude one thing from your post. You dont consider meer nasir as a reliable source for information.”

    Absolutly not, I never said that. I am trying to make you understand that indeed he has used the word “wabaai heza” in his book but this is what he think he heard from Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad A.S. However there were few more people in the room as well ie, his sons and they have never used the word of Wabai Heza in their books.

    Now the point I am trying to make here is completely Shari.

    My Argument – In Islam how does the witness system work? Or how does sharaiyat purpose the the witness system?

    Indeed you look at the person profession and how reliable he may be is in his and how strong his argument is. Mir Nasir sahib although was present but he is the only person who thinks he heard Hadhrat sahib saying this however no one else present in the room witness to this statement. However the Doctors who were professional in their profession and of highest calibre confirmed it was not Hyesteria. Now Islamicaly or infact in any court of Justice you will notice that the Judge and Jury will give preferce to two doctors against the weak testimony of Mir sb.

    In fact islamicaly the number of witness matter a lot, for example take the example of sighting of moon for Eid and preference given to witnesses, during Nikah the preference is given to witnesses and number of them….so on so forth.

    This infact establishes the truth of Mir Nasir sahib that he stated what he though he may have heard. He did not subtract and added to what he thought.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You said “second you are accepting by your words that mirza ghulam ahmed was not capable enough to diagnose his own disease….”

    This is absolutly bullshit from you. I think you have run out of arguments. Prove me from Quran and Hadith that Holy Prophet SAW never needed a doctor at his time and he SAW was always able to diagnose his own diseases.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You said “Its up to you what ever your say he was died of what ever. DIARRHEA , he was suffering from DIARRHEA through out his life. I am a medical practitioner also and anyone who is already suffering from diarrhea , it can not cause its death suddenly, rather something else some stronger thing is required to choke your internal system.”

    The above statement of yours show that you have absolutly not read the book Hayat Nasir completely and you only took the hate filled referece from the anti Ahmadiyya website and blind folded youself with hatred. If you have read the book in whole then at least you would have never brought this argument. If you are interested then I can find some links which you can use to increase you knowledge in this regard. Good to know you are a doctor and hopefully when you read the full story then perhaps it will make more sence.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You said “Who were those Doctors ? Were they any neutral third party doctors or those were qadiyani ? if they were qadiyani’s their report is also not trust worthy. you know it very well that how it is easier to manipulate medical reports and records.”

    At one hand you are trusting Mir Nasir sahib and his words and on others yo uare saying reports from Qadiyanis are not trust worthy! I suggest you make up your mind on this particualr point. Are Ahamdies trust worthy and they all are if not then they all are not.

    I cannot say whether there was any Ahmadi doctor among the prominent Hospital staff but there are indeed few names who are of non Ahmadies.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You said “But from your initial statement i have got my answer that mirza was not a doctor that’s why he was unable to state that he was infected by cholera. the same why we are also stating that he was not an imam and maseeh or prophet that’s why his teachings are also not acceptable. because his claim was false;”

    Nouzobillah min zaalik..think before you write utter rubbish. You are perhaps too keen on to jumping on the conclusion. Perhaps this is the reason you have made up your mind against Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad A.S and his followers. Would you use the same rule to consider the prophethood of Holy Prophet SAW? If he SAW was not a doctor and if he SAW did not know what sort of illnesses he SAW sufferes from then would you Nouzobillah also turn away from him SAW?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You in your next message added:

    “Dying declaration is universally accepted in any court of law as a truthful deposition of a dying man. Following dying declaration of Mirza Ghulam is an irrevocable testimony of the acceptance of his supplication – to kill of that. Mir Nasir Nawab, father-in-law of Mirza Ghulam was at his bedside. He had suddenly developed diarrhea and vomiting (Cholera!). Mir Nasir in his biography, Hayat-e-Nasir, wrote:”

    Please provide proof of such claim. Which Law approves that?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I guess rest of your rubbish should be covered by above arguments. i look forward to see your reply as per my arguments.

  44. After reading your reply i am rolling on floor with laughter, You are a complete example of person whom hearts are sealed, so they can not get the guidance.

    Either you are completely insane or i don’t want to to give example of it. so by your example you are accepting that due to nature of scene you don’t trust mir nasir’s statement because it is not reliable and is not according to the rules of sharia. I really dont understand one thing. why ahmadis become so angry if some one is saying mirza died of cholera, they are accepting diarhera because dr wrote it. 😀 .

    You are also accepting that you are giving more priority to the statement of doctor rather than statement of shabi. I will wait for your link of book. I really want to check in more details what has been written there.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    See now you tried to compare mirz aginst Nabi Akram Hazrat Muhammad PBUH. this is the main source of fight between Muslim’s and qadiyani;’s because you dont feel ashamed to even think about it. We Love Hazrat Muhammad PBUH more than our fathers and mothers, He is the best man in this universe and you are tring to give his examples against the worst person in this world.

    You are completely unaware of Ahadith and Quran also, you even do know that Nabi Akram told so many things about medicine to Sahaba Karaam. He was living with Zam Zam water which itself is Shafaa. Nabi Akram was so powerful that with his one gesture of finger moon divided into two pieces. He even provided information about what is going to come ahead in future.

    We know he is a true Prophet like we accept Allah without any proof the same way we accept Hazrat Muhammad PBUH as our last Prophet without asking for any proofs. This is our iman. So you can not give any example of Hazarat Muhammad PBUH to prove anything of mirza.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Alhamdulillah , I dont trust even a signle word of qadiyani’s books because those are not reliable due to fact mirza himself was nor a prophet neither any spirtual leader, and as per Iman Abu Hanifa anybody who asks for an proof from a fake prophet, he is also a kafir because Hazrat Muhammad PBUH has clearly said that there is not Prophet after me.

    I have nothing to win by prooving that he died of cholera or by something else. Even as you are trying to prove he didn’t died of cholera will that proof anything that he was a maseeh or imam, Reality will remaing same that he was same like other 30 liers about whom Hazram Muhamamd PBUH warned 1400 years ago that in my ummat there will be 30 people who will claim that they are prophets but remember I am the last prophet.

    I just mentioned you examples from your own books to show you what you are blindly following. and how much contraversion is between your own books and statements.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I dont have any further examples as you dont accept what i have prvided so there is not need to go deep into this. Because there is nothing to come out of it . Just move ahead.

    PS. Just a question to be asked from yourself “Can Wife of a Prophet Married to an Ummati ? ” If NO , because Wife of Nabi is Mother of Ummat then qadiyani’s firht khalifa is also their father because he married to their mother ? Give example of any other prophet ?

  45. @DC DC on June 21, 2010 at 3:48 am

    I only take the bits which are worth replying. As Holy Quran says that they did not send any Prophet which was not mocked by people”. If Allah has sent Lanat on you for mocking a Prophet then I guess my Lanat would not add much of a difference. Another verse of Holy Quran also says: Lanatallahu Alal Kazebeen…Allah sends Lanat on the lier. As this is cleared I will reply to your post.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You said “After reading your reply i am rolling on floor with laughter, You are a complete example of person whom hearts are sealed, so they can not get the guidance.”

    I guess at least I did not roll on the floor after reading your reply. And my reply would indeed be same for you that indeed you are also an example whom hearts is sealed. Day and night people are joining Ahmadiyyat the True Islam everywhere in the world. Alhamdolillah.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You said: “Either you are completely insane or i don’t want to to give example of it. so by your example you are accepting that due to nature of scene you don’t trust mir nasir’s statement because it is not reliable and is not according to the rules of sharia. I really dont understand one thing. why ahmadis become so angry if some one is saying mirza died of cholera, they are accepting diarhera because dr wrote it.”

    I will indeed give you the example later on but lets get on with this particular issue first. I am indeed saying that as this is not the writing of Promised Messiah A.S and Biography written by his Father in Law who must be in his late 70s and it is very likely that he may have heard the words incorrectly. And to prove that he may have heard the words incorrectly the Doctor statements were collected. It is as simple as it is. This does not mean he was a lier Nouzobillah.

    Answer I want from you:
    If tomorrow I write your Biography and write down at last moments of your life I heard from you saying that you may have had Cholera and then you die. Later on your son have your son bring a doctor and have your check and and Dr say no there is no hint of Cholera and I say no I heard from your mouth. And your son says no you were not doctor nor am I and doctor report contradicts what I may have heard then which report will be taken for truth?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You said: “You are also accepting that you are giving more priority to the statement of doctor rather than statement of shabi. I will wait for your link of book. I really want to check in more details what has been written there.”

    I guess my above argument should cover who should be given priority. There are various books in Urdu and English which protrays the Ahmadiyya argument on the last moments of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad A.S, If you cant read Urdu then it will spare me time getting you the English Links only!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You said “See now you tried to compare mirz aginst Nabi Akram Hazrat Muhammad PBUH. this is the main source of fight between Muslim’s and qadiyani;’s because you dont feel ashamed to even think about it. We Love Hazrat Muhammad PBUH more than our fathers and mothers, He is the best man in this universe and you are tring to give his examples against the worst person in this world. ”

    This shows your ignorant mind. The main soruce of fight is that we have told you that Jesus AS has passed away. If you want to know how much Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS loved Holy Prophet SAW and how much Ahamdis love holy Prophet then go and watch videos of dying Ahmadies of Lahore on youtube who on there dying moments sending durood on Rasoolullah SAW. Our love for Rasoolullah SAW does not need to discussed here as you will find it out at the day Judgement.

    Rasoolullah SAW is indeed the Rehmatulil Aalameen and Khatam un Nabiyeen as per Quran says no doubt about it. And this is usually the enquest of every momin to walk on the footsteps of him so their spirual status can elevate. Hence comparing one with the example of Holy Prophet is not wrong. This shows the weakness and help one to get better and better. If you do not want to answer my raised query then this is your personal choice and i will not force you. But at least it did make you think about this.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Your said: “You are completely unaware of Ahadith and Quran also, you even do know that Nabi Akram told so many things about medicine to Sahaba Karaam. He was living with Zam Zam water which itself is Shafaa. Nabi Akram was so powerful that with his one gesture of finger moon divided into two pieces. He even provided information about what is going to come ahead in future.”

    There is absolutely no question on the miracles performed by Rasoolullah SAW. Nouzobillah min zaalik I am not questioning those at all. But as far as I am being unaware of Quran and Hadith is wrong….infact in Holy Quran Chapter 17 verse 93, When Kuffar of Makkah asked Holy Prophet SAW that we will only believe in you if you go yo moon and bring us a book and Holy Prophet SAW replied I am nothing but a man and Prophet of Allah.
    You have failed to provide a single Hadith which proves that Holy Prophet SAW never had to use a doctor in his time.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You said: “We know he is a true Prophet like we accept Allah without any proof the same way we accept Hazrat Muhammad PBUH as our last Prophet without asking for any proofs. This is our iman. So you can not give any example of Hazarat Muhammad PBUH to prove anything of mirza.”

    We Alhamdolillah only use Quran and Hadith to give the example of our truthfulness and do Dawat e Lillah. Holy Prophet SAW is the only example we have and Alhamdolillah the only example we need to give and Holy Quran is the final book of Allah.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You said “Alhamdulillah , I dont trust even a signle word of qadiyani’s books because those are not reliable due to fact mirza himself was nor a prophet neither any spirtual leader, and as per Iman Abu Hanifa anybody who asks for an proof from a fake prophet, he is also a kafir because Hazrat Muhammad PBUH has clearly said that there is not Prophet after me.”

    As per same rule you have said that you dont trust the words written by Mir sahib….hence that part of the case is closed. How can you say no Prophet will come after Holy Prophet SAW and then bring Jesus AS as prophet after Rasoolullah SAW….shame on you. Decide what you believe first before you question my faith.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You Said: “I have nothing to win by prooving that he died of cholera or by something else. Even as you are trying to prove he didn’t died of cholera will that proof anything that he was a maseeh or imam, Reality will remaing same that he was same like other 30 liers about whom Hazram Muhamamd PBUH warned 1400 years ago that in my ummat there will be 30 people who will claim that they are prophets but remember I am the last prophet.”

    My win is that you lied in your original claim. And I have proved to you that you were wrong in what you were told to believe. Indeed he SAW is the last law bearning Prophet. No doubt in that.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You said “I just mentioned you examples from your own books to show you what you are blindly following. and how much contraversion is between your own books and statements.”

    Where exactly you pointed that out?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You said “I dont have any further examples as you dont accept what i have prvided so there is not need to go deep into this. Because there is nothing to come out of it . Just move ahead.”

    I could say exactly the same thing and move on. But will this resolve the issue. Thats why I say just counter my arguments on this particluar topic and stay on it until you make your mind. I have no personal issues with you. I just want you to let me and my people live in peace and let us practice our faith as per our understanding. On the judgement day Allah will decide who was wrong and who is not. Is that too much of asking. If I start abusing your father the similar way then how would you feel. I am sure you will feel bad. We also feel the same way when people say utter rubbish against our Khulefa and Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS.

    If you dont want to discuss this further then this is fine. But as per Quran instruction…La Ikraha fideen…there is no compulsion in matter of faither…let us practice our faith and you practice you faith…if you consider us wrong then I am not saying dont consider me wrong but dont persecute us for our faith nor abuse us. Allah will decide who is right and who is wrong.

    Look forward to hear postive reply from you.

  46. @DC

    LEAVE THEM WHERE THEY ARE, you have done your job Masha-Allah, because for Ahamdi’s one page of Hayat-e-Nasir is information and on other hand the other page of Hayat-e_Nasir is misinformation, leave them like as it is

  47. Yasser sahib,

    I take as you are happy with the difference explained for word Kafir and Muslim.

    May Allah guide us all on the right path ameen.

  48. @d-tox..ed

    i don’t think you have the ability and knowledge to understand and accept by yourself the meaning of two different pages mentioned in one book which you follow then how come you can explain the meaning of Kaffir and Muslim.

    //May Allah guide us all on the right path ameen.//
    Yes Ameen

  49. @Yasser

    Then I will be more then happy to see you prove my ability, knowledge and understanding wrong. You are simply upset becasue I taught you the concept like a primary school child and you still did not get it!

  50. lol you are so childish and free.

    you are failed child by yourself who can read A for Apple but cannot read A for Applied just like you can read and understand Hayat-e-Nasir one page but cannot read and understand Hayat-e-Nasir other page

    I don’t have any problem you living like that, so stop mentioning me

    Kind Regards

  51. at least something made you laugh…I thought you were serious person….The letter A stands for a lot things and I am sure we cannot go through all of them.

    Hayat e Nasir book is indeed written by Father in Law of Promised Messiah A.S and we all respect him however in Jamaat the importance is only given to books of Promised Messiah AS and his Khuelfa. Every Tom Dik and Harry indeed has the right to write any book but it will not be counted as the view of Jamaat Ahmadiyya.

    You Kind regards are accepted. BTW have you actually read the book Hayat e Nasir or are you also stuck on two page dialema taught by Mullah?

  52. @Detoxicated

    You know the reason why i was laughing because of your replies. Lies dont have feet is same thing applied to you. If you want to take it as your win take it as you are thinking that i failed to convince you regarding death of mirza with cholera. You are so blind you accepted your defeat by your own words that you don’t trust meer nasir book as he was 70 year old and he might heard it wrong. 😀 . Just drink some water and let some neutral person read your own posts. I rest my case.

    You are just trying to prove that mirza was maseeh you should read my previous reply about Hazrat Essa A.S. instead of neglecting all quranic verseses and ahadith just see how mirza even couldn’t fulfill a single statement to prove he was maseeh. [..edit…]

    Day and nights people are joining ahmadiat. It reminds me one ghazal of ghalib “DIL KE BEHLAANEY KO GHALIB YE KHAYAL AACHA HEY !” . you are living in paradise of fools 😉

    As i previously told you I have nothing to prove whether he died of cholera or not, just you need to check your books carefully , even your so called fake maseeh has so much inconsistency in his books. My intentions behind giving you examples and miricles of Hazrat Muhammad PBUH was to show you his position in this universe. which you were trying to compare agaisnt mirza. There were doctors at the time of Prophet Muhammad there is no doubt in it but as per your claim can you prove from hadith that Hazrat Muhammad PBUH went to doctor or any doctor came to visit him to cure him from any disease ? but my question is will that thing justify that mirza […edit…] was really a prophet.

    How much mirza or your khalifa loved Prophet Muhammad is like an open book, i think you need to read carefully qadiyani books what they have written about Prophet Muhamamd and other Prophets! I am not questioning your love i am asking you to judge your khalifa and your so called prophet’s love for other prophets.

    First of all don’t make any assumptions about Hazrat Eisa AS , to proof their statement qadiyanis are so unfortunate first they claimed Hazrat Eisa passed away Where as Quran is saying Eisa didn’t die , Allah rose him to skies. then later they claimed they found his tomb in kashmir. […edit..]

    it has been mentiond in Quran and Ahadith that Hazrat Eisa A.S will come back to this world. Allah will send him directly from sky to this world, ( Not by birth from GHASEETI ). I swear to Allah who is the producer of this universe and owner of death and life, show me proof from Quran or Ahadith that mirza was the real promised maseeh, I WILL BECOME AHMADI ! but if you failed to produce such proofs then i will pray to Allah to accept your prayer. Lanatallahu Alal Kazebeen…Allah ‘s Lanat on the lier.

    You dont want to accept HAYAT-E-NASIR dont accept. [author: Anything that is without a proof will be deleted]

    LA IKRAAHA FI DEEN . There is no compulsion in matter of religion. Yes this is 100% true for those who are Non-Muslim. But what about those who are followers of a fake prophet, calling themselves as Muslim and all others Non Muslim even basterds and wild bors and sons of prostitutes. As per islamic shariya those are called zandeeq because they are kafir but they are publishing their kufr as islam. You know it very well you have nothing to do with islam your religion is completely fake and hollow surrounding around khaifa’s words. […characterisation will not be entertained…]

    Unless you will keep calling your fake religion ISLAM we will continue to stop you. Just dont call yourself muslim and dont represent yourself as musli, because islam never teachs for zana or lies . Islam is very streight forward no if’s and buts.

    By the way you didnt answer my last statement about qadiyani’s rohani mother, if she was really a wife of prophet why she got married to her own roohani son ? Is Your rohani mother and wife of fake maseeh (Um-Ul-Jaheleen) is not worth answering ? 😉

    ——————————————————–

    Keep my words : I swear to Allah who is the producer of this universe and owner of death and life, show me proof from Quran or Ahadith that mirza was the real promised maseeh, I WILL BECOME AHMADI ! but if you failed to produce such proofs then i will pray to Allah to accept your prayer. Lanatallahu Alal Kazebeen and Allah’s Lanat on all qadiyani’s.

  53. ^That was a very long and very irrelvent post of yours. You like to jump the grounds a lot. I am not doing anything but trying to debate with you on the topic, points raised and arguments and you on other hand adding 100 topics to the debate. I can simply copy paste material to shut your mouth as well but this indeed is not my intension nor purpose.

    The purpore is to clarify with you whether Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmas AS died of cholera or not.

    If you like to stay on this topic then let me know and we can finish this and move onto another. If not then I guess there is no point me adding thing further to prolong this topic.

  54. Forget About Cholera !

    As you don’t accept writings of mir nasir i don’t want to debate on this topic . If you are happy with that i accept that i don’t have any further proofs of that whether he died of cholera or no.

    My Long post contained all answers to the question which you wrote in reply of my last post. Just leave it. Now i want you to prove me that he was a maseeh.

    ————————————-

    What about proofs of Maseeh ?

    Just prove it and you will have one more ahmadi in your jamat. not only that i will stand with you to fight against infidels and people who are hurting your feelings. and unlike coward ahmadis i will say it proudly.

    ————————————-

    Dont post anything except proofs that he was a MASEEH .

    Validity of proofs are only QURAN or Ahadith (Sahah-e-Sittah).

  55. Sure I have absolutely no problem in sharing why I stand firm on my faith and why i think you should be on this side of the force then other.

    I would like to request the moderator of this forum to allow such a debate. If he/she is happy to get along then we can commence.

    The purpose of our life as per Holy Quran is to worship Allah and seek the pleasure of Allah by doing what he has commanded us to do in Holy Quran. We cannot find guidance until Allah guide us to the right path. Hence in meantime the moderator allows us for the debate lets pray to Allah individually that he may guide us both to the right path and give us both the capacity to understand the truth, ameen. We can keep on arguing on various points forever but it will not bear any fruit. Lets pray to Allah deeply that we seek truth. There is person who claims to be the Prophet of Allah and Messiah who was fortold by Holy Prophet SAW. And we seek guidance from Allah to help us recognise truth from the falsehood. Ameen.

    I have few requests:

    1 – No religious Leader characterisation.
    2 – No missing of topics
    3 – Every claim must be accompanied with evidence.

    P.S – I do not find this particular forum to be suitable for holding a discussion as we cannot upload anything and columns are very thin. If you agree we can perhaps use personal emails for debate? Or may be another neutral place.

  56. I have no problem with above. I also want to seek guidance from Allah.

    No problem related to religious leaders characterization. but be sure you don’t mention their quotes.

    No Missing or Mixing of Topics

    All Claims with Evidences.

    I am happy with any of above solution, instead of emails i like to have it open so everybody will know the reality.

    If moderator is happy, he can open a new post otherwise you create a page or forum where we can post our things.

  57. i dont mind you guys having a decent debate on my blog but this is a last warning to DC.

    @DC: you forgot one thing the person you are trying to convice believes that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as was Promised Massiah and Mehdi and by using this kind of language you cant convince ANY Ahmadi. Infact you are making them believe that they ARE true.

    So next time if you have to get into a debate first LEARN to respect than carry a debate.

    From now on anything that you have to say, you’ll provide with PROPER citation. If you cant provide any references to your claim you better not say it because it will be removed, no body is interested in Anti Ahmadi websites think about Ahmadis.

    @ d-tox..ed you can make the column bigger. To upload an image you need to use
    put image link and file name.

    And i would suggest that this debate started on this blog so you guys should continue it here for other silent readers who are also part of this debate. I would also like to be part of this discussion.

  58. Many Thanks Admin and DumbCode.

    Nahmadohoo Nussalli Alaa rasoole hil kareem, Amma baad fa’aoozobillah minnashitaa nirrajeem, Bismilla Hirrah maan nirraheem.

    There are two major debateable topics among Ahmadies and Non Ahmadies.

    1 – Death of Jesus AS
    2 – Khatm e Nabbuwat

    You are most welcome to add more topics to discussion as we go along.

    Before we begin the discussion it is important that we clarify the mode of discussion.

    – Will I be trying to convince you why I believe Maseehe Nassri AS has passed away and why I consider Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be the same Promised Messiah fortold by Holy Prophet SAW and Holy Quran
    -Or will you be trying to convince me the opposite.

    I think the river can only flow in one direction. Either I try to convince you and you bring counter argument. Or you can try to convince me and I will try to counter your arguments.

    I suggest as I am claiming that Promised Messiah has arrived then I should be the one try to convince you.

  59. No need to add any other topic till we finalized the first one. that The Promised Maseeiah has arrived.

    I really don’t want to convince you or get convinced by you, I just want to see the reality. remaining Allah knows the best.

  60. Since centuries Muslims are carrying this belief that Jesus AS is still allive and will return on earth at near the end times. The first task of hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad A.S was to inform people that no Jesus AS has passed away like all other Prophets. Second task was to guide people on the real meaning of Khatm e Nabbuwat. Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS proved from Quran and Hadith that Jesus AS has indeed passed away. You cannot understand the claim of Promised Messiah AS until you accept or understand that why Jesus AS has passed away as per Quran. You cannot accept him to be Messiah until you believe or understand Jesus AS has passed away.

    At once you will be thinking Jesus AS is allive and will be coming then the only thing you will look into my argument is that Nouzobillah Jesus is still alive and Hadhrat is an imposter.

    If I prove to you from Quran that the concept of Jesus AS still being alive in wrong and this concept is taught by hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad then at least you ll be taking the first step forward.

    My arguments will be from Quran and Hadith.

  61. I am waiting for your reply, So the first step is Death of Hazrat Eisa A.S.

  62. Jazakallah.

    As per Holy Quran you will not find a single verse claiming that Hadhrat Esa AS was taken up alive in his body to heavens.

    The word Mutevafeeka has been used which Ahmadi translate as “die” and Non Ahmadi translate as “Take up”.

    For example Holy Quran, Surah Al Maida, Chapter 5, Verse 117

    “Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, ‘worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord’; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.”
    (Translation of Non Ahmadi Source: By Yusuf Ali)

    Now if you exchange the word “take me up” with die then you will read the verse as: “….when Thou didst cause me die Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things”

    Keep in mind the Arabic word used in this context is Mutavafeeka. Lets take few more examples from more verses of Holy Quran where this particular word is used and how it is taken.

    Holy Quran, Surah Az Zumar, Chapter 39, Verse 42

    It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.
    (Translation of Non Ahmadi Source: By Yusuf Ali)

    Here Allah clearly says that there are only two ways He does the of Human beings ie takes Souls at death and during sleep.


    Verses of Holy Quran where Allah does and Human being is one who’s is done means separation of Soul from body ie Death

    Holy Quran, Surah Al Imran, Chapter 3, Verse 193

    Our Lord! we have heard the call of one calling (Us) to Faith, ‘Believe ye in the Lord,’ and we have believed. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins, blot out from us our iniquities, and take to Thyself our souls in the company of the righteous

    Holy Quran, Surah Al Imran, Chapter 7, Verse 126

    But thou dost wreak thy vengeance on us simply because we believed in the Signs of our Lord when they reached us! Our Lord! pour out on us patience and constancy, and take our souls unto thee as Muslims (who bow to thy will)!

    Holy Quran, Surah Al Yusuf, Chapter 12, Verse 101

    O my Lord! Thou hast indeed bestowed on me some power, and taught me something of the interpretation of dreams and events,- O Thou Creator of the heavens and the earth! Thou art my Protector in this world and in the Hereafter. Take Thou my soul (at death) as one submitting to Thy will (as a Muslim) , and unite me with the righteous

    Holy Quran, Surah Muhammad, Chapter 47, Verse 27

    But how (will it be) when the angels take their souls at death , and smite their faces and their backs?

    The words used in all above quotes are “Vaffa, Tawaffa, Mutawaffa etc”. In essence if word generate from same route then its meaning should be taken as same. There is a huge difference in taking of soul and taking of body.

    As per same rule we believe that wherever the word Mutawaffeeka us used it should be translated as taking of Souls. And the use of rafa for Esa AS in very first quoted is taken of Soul ie Death.

    There are many more verses but I think we should keep the posts concise for other user to read. Please note everything typed above is typed by me and nothing is copy pasted. Hence I expect you to avoid copy pasting material and try to stay on the topic.

    I expect you to reply me on the word Rafa and related Ayaats I presented for my case.

  63. You just keep continue with it. I don’t have any argue with ayat you mentioned.

  64. I have only one explaination related to your First Reference of “Al-Maida Ayat 117”.

    You need to read from Ayat 116-118 . This whole conversation is in Arabic in Future Tense . As per Translation

    ‘Īsā (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: ‘Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allâh?’ ” He will say: “Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden (and unseen). (116) “Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allâh) did command me to say: ‘Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world). (117) “If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them, verily You, only You are the All¬Mighty, the All¬Wise[].” (118)

    I will take your words. YTAWAFAA as die . You just carry on with next.

    • I will get to you replied post later or tomorrow. Inshallah.

    • Jazakallah for raising the future tense issue.

      For the benefit of other readers let me explain what I think you meant by that.
      According to Non Ahmadi Muslims the verse being in future tense means that this question will be asked by Allah when Jesus AS will finaly die as per future tense. And if it was in past tense it would have been read as ‘had die’.

      My reply.

      Holy Quran has mentioned Hadhrat Esa AS as Prophet of Bani Israel. Ayaats can be provided if required. He was the Prophet/Messiah for the people of Israel ie Jews. He AS was sent by Allah to pass the message to tribes of Israel.

      In Holy Quran you will not find a single verse saying Esa AS the prophet of Muslims or Messiah of Muslims. Hence as per Holy Quran I should be right in saying that in this ayat (5:116) when Esa AS say “when I was among them”, ‘them’ means Bani Israel and not Muslims. When I was amog Bani Israel, I was looking after them but when you cause me to die I dont know what happend to them.

      At this stage as per Non Ahmadi Muslims believes Hadhrat Esa AS is still going to retun and Bani Israel ie Jews are still here and when he AS comes he will witness what Jews did. But there is absolutely no mention of these two phases of his AS life on earth.

      Hence I should be correct in understanding the verse as when Esa AS was among his people/followers he was witness against them but when we died he does not know what they did behind him.

  65. Jazakallah

    There are few more examples where words likes Yatawaffakum and yatawaffa are used in the meaning of either death or taking of soul:

    Holy Quran, Surah An Nahl, Chapter 16, Verse 70

    It is Allah who creates you and takes your souls at death; and of you there are some who are sent back to a feeble age, so that they know nothing after having known (much): for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Powerful.

    Holy Quran, Surah Al Hajj, Chapter 22, Verse 5

    O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).

    Holy Quran, Surah As Sajda, Chapter 32, Verse 11

    Say: “The Angel of Death, put in charge of you, will (duly) take your souls: then shall ye be brought back to your Lord.”

    Explanation of Arabic word Mutawafeeka

    At this stage perhaps it is a good idea to understand the word Mutawafeeka and where is derives from. Just to prove it does not mean assention of Physical body.

    The expression Mutawafeeka comes from the root word “Vaffa” which means ‘completing task to such extent that nothing is left out’. In the similar manner the Arabic word ‘Vafa’at’ means Death.

    Following are some references from Standard Arabic dictionaries which tell us about the meaning of the word VAFFAT.

    ‘VAFFAT’ = Death, Decease (An advanced Learners Arabic-English Dictionary by H. Anthony Salmone pp1222)

    ‘VAFFAT’ = Death, Demise, Decease (Al Mawrid Arabic-English Dictionary pp 1240)

    ‘TUVAFA’ = To take the life of anyone (A Dictionary & Glossary of the Koran by J. Penrice pp 161)

    ‘TUUFFA’ = To die, Expire, Pass away, Give up the ghost, Breath ones last, Part ones life (Al Mawrid Arabic-English Dictionary pp 391)

    In English to Arabic dictionaries ie reverse the meaning of ‘vaffat’ is again confirmed

    DEATH = ‘vaffat’ (Al Manar English-Arabic Dictionary pp 157)
    DEATH = ‘vaffat’ (Al Asri English-Arabic Dictionary pp 193)
    DEMISE = ‘vaffat’ (Al Mawrid English-Arabic Dictionary pp 259)
    DEATH = ‘vaffat’ (Al Mawrid Eng Arabic Dictionary pp 251)

    ie The word Death means Vafaat and Tavaffa. Hence anywhere in Quran where we find word which roots are from Rafa, Tawafaa, Mutaffeeka should be taken as death or taking of soul and not assention of body. Hence every ayat where word Rafa is used for Hadhrat Esa AS means death and assention of Soul and not the assention of body.

  66. Another verse used by Non Ahmadi Muslims in favor of idea that Hadhrat Esa AS as asscended to heavens is following:

    Holy Quran, Surah Al Imran Chapter 3, Verse 55

    Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

    Taking other verses in mind and this particular verse and meaning of Mutawaffeeka, the above verse clearly mentioned “take thee to myseld” and no mention of body or soul. And as per other Quranic ayaat which are mentioned above where mutawfeeka is used as taken of soul then this verse should not be treated separetly. As per same rule the verse should conclude as: O Jesus I will cause thee to die.

    You may bring the argument of future tense here as well. Then tell me where does Quran says Hadhrat Esa AS has assended to heavens in his body?

  67. Concept of Assention of Esa As and its Bad Impacts on Islam

    The concept of Hadhrat Esa AS being alive has purely infused in Islam from Christianity. And Christian Missionaries all over the world has taken great advantage of this concept in converting of innocent Muslims to Christians. This practice became very influentional in India when British took over the country.

    I would like to give a very simple example which is always used by Christians when we are preaching them as a counter argument but obviously it does not work anymore.

    According to Christains, Hadhrat Esa As was a man and ascended to Heaven and sitting on the right hand of Allah.
    The give the example of this particular verse when speaking to at least Non Ahmadi Muslims:

    Holy Quran, Surah Al Imran Chapter 17, Verse 94

    “Or thou have a house adorned with gold, or thou mount a ladder right into the skies. No, we shall not even believe in thy mounting until thou send down to us a book that we could read.” Say: “Glory to my Lord! Am I aught but a man,- an apostle?”

    When Holy Prophet SAW was preaching Kuffar they asked him we will not believe in you until you go ang get a book from God which we can read and Holy Prophet SAW I cannot, I am nothing but a man, and a Prophet of Allah.

    Christians says was Jesus AS a man or not and you say YES
    Did he not ascend to sky and you say YES

    If Jesus AS as a man can ascend to Heavens and stay there for 2000 years and when Muhammad SAW can’t then as per Quranic Ayat Jesus AS is either not a man or better then Hadhrat Muhamamd SAW (Nouzobillah).

    Conclusion: The revival of Islam is only in the death of Jesus AS. The breaking of cross is only possible if we accept Jesus AS has passed away.

  68. I can continue on the subject unless you have more comments at this point.

  69. Just Keep continue posting, I am traveling sicne morning, once i will get time, i will post some comments on your posts inshAllah.

    First Just finish Death of Hazrat Eisa and How he lifted up sky and wait. I will give you some comments about it as i get time.

  70. Inshallah…I am also killing my work time since morning…so in mean while I will try to get some work done….but have some more arguments which I was reading in the Tafseer e Kabeer (Tafseer of Holy Quran done by Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) and tafeer of (5:117). Will translate and post tomorrow.

  71. I am glad we are having a debate like civil human beings

    see its not too hard 🙂

  72. Logical Reason

    Allah has created a Law of Nature for everything to take it course. Nothing is beyond that law. Even the maraculous virgin Birth of Jesus follows the same law. Never in the history of world any man has done what we claim Hadhrat Esa AS did….flew in sky and went up.

    -Have you ever thought how Esa AS went Up?
    -How did he survive the Electromagnatic Rays coming from Sun during his journey?
    -How did he survive the cold and hot
    -How come he is still alive in the same body as was given 2000 years ago

    Who was the greatest Prophet of Allah….Hadhrat Muhammad Mustpaha SAW. Every Muslim believes that if it wasnt for Holy Prophet SAW Allah would not have created this world. Allah gave Holy Prophet SAW a natural death at the age just 63 and kept Jesus AS the Prophet of Bani Israel alive for 2000 years to come and revive the religion of Muhammad SAW. Why did not Allah just took Holy Prophet SAW away in heaven and send him SAW back on earth 1400 years later. Who was more closer to Allah, Esa AS or Muhammad SAW? You decide.

    At a stage Kufar of Mecca ask Holy Prophet SAW to go to your Allah and bring us a book and Holy Prophet SAW reply I cant because I am not nothing but a man and on Prophet of Allah and on other hand Jesus AS being a man and Prophet of Allah can do this?

    This theory is absolutely beyond any logical reasoning that Allah saves one man 2000 years ago to send him again on earth to spread the message of Islam simply because his people rejected him? Perhaps this is the reason a lot of Christians are becoming athiest. There is no room for such belief in this world.

    No one has ever survived for such a long period without food and water nor anyone one. Holy Prophet SAW was the most beloved of Allah and if he has died then I cannot image anyone before him still alive.

  73. Rafaa in Prayer

    During normal prayers we pray to Allah: “Allahumagfirli warhamni wahdeni warafani wajburni warzukhni”

    How would you translate Warafani here? Allah ascend us to heaven as you did to Jesus AS? Absolutely not. Rafaa here means the Rafaa (raise) of Spiritual Status.

  74. Indeed Very Impressive Comments, As soon i will get time i will post a long reply there are several points.

    1- TAWAFA — Itself is not meant for death, it is used a as a parallel meaning to death, sleep etc. His time completed, nothing left. So that’s why when they write tafseer based on the context of sentence they take its meaning.

    2- Since 1300 years all Mujadad’s have written “Taken Away” in their tafseer regarding Hazrat Eisa A.S. so why Tafseer written by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed is entirely different than them. , Well that is not a topic of discussion just my comments.

    3- Regarding his life or death Allah know the best. I have some questions. Was his birth like normal human being ? Is raising dead or curing blinds are normal thing ? same way why his flying away with angels is taken as very starnge thing.

    4- Allah knows how he is getting food or his life beyond 2000 year as in Quran Allah is also saying “All those who died in his way don’t call them dead yet they are alive and you don’t have information (about their lives). . They are physically dead but Allah knows how they are alive in heaven.

    5- If a fire can become cold for IBRAHIM , if a River can split it self for MOSES, Why there is a problem accepting Allah rose Jesus toward him self., Is Allah not capable of keeping him alive for 2000 year or giving him food or any thing. ?

    6- Oh! How will Allah ever bring it to life after its death? Ch 2:259 This is about Hazrat Uzair . that Allah let him die for 100 years and then Allah rose him up and show him how Allah can let some one die and gives him life afterward.

    Let me get some time, I will try to get more information about this topic. Remain Allah know the best and praying him to guide us toward better way. Aameen

    • Reply to Part 1
      I have absolutely no issue with how Ulema do the Tafseer. The root word Rafa has been used 33 times in Quran and appox 27 times used as the meaning of death or taking of Soul and about 3 times spiritual elevation and about three times as Physical Assention as per your belief.

      Seen cannot be campared with unseen similarly spiritual elevation cannot be campared with physical elevation ie these two things are not campareable. Either the word meaning has to be taken as physical assention or the completely opposite spiritual ascention for everytime this word is used.

      Here as an Ahmadi I chose to take this word as Rafa of soul which is absolutely in line with Holy Quran and various other Ayaats. You can indeed differ on this particular issue but as my argument is from Quran and a valid argument you cannot deny me being called Muslim but indeed as other sects you have the right to take whatever belief you want to choose. (I thought I ll just add this point as the conversation build along and every future argument against us will be replied with Quran and Hadith)

  75. Reply to Part 2

    My brother maybe I did not clear my argument entirly or maybe you could not complete your sentence to extent you may have wanted to.

    We never deny meaning “TAKEN AWAY”. We also believe he AS was taken away but his spirit not his body. His Spirit had the RAFA and not the body. This is argument which I was trying to eleborate up that there is ABSOLUTLY NO MENTION OF HIS BODY BEING TAKEN AWAY….the translation says and “we did his Rafa” and my argument is that every other time this word Rafa is used in Holy Quran it is used in spiritual term and not the physical. And in this particular verse there is no mention of Physical Rafa then why would any Alim take the meaning as physical Rafa?

    As you mentioned the Ulema or Muhaddeseen have been doing Tafseer of this verse as Physical assention then it is again wrong. I can provide evidence of this fact…if you are interested in vewing or getting the references.

  76. Reply to Part 3

    You asked three major questions and it is very difficult to make a satisfactory reply in this regards in this short period of space. But I will rey to be brief.

    Was his (Esa AS) birth like normal human being ?
    This is where you need to think harder and concentrate on other verses of Holy Quran. There is a verse (cant remember the verse number but if you are eager to know then I can get you the reference later) where Allah says he does not break his own rules. The Law of nature is created by Allah. Everything and anything which happens in this universe happens as per the natural Law created by Allah. In many verses of Holy Quran Allah points as towards things we know not. There are a lot of things we Humans know then we did not know 2000 years ago and it is likely we will find out more information as the time progresses. Coming back to your question, Hadhrat Esa AS indeed had a maraculous birth from Virgin mother and Holy Quran confirms this. However as per other verses of Holy Quran that Allah does not break his own Law this birth is also within the natural capability of women. There had been few cases in Mexico and Germany which I read where women claimed to have given birth without a man even touching them. The process of Parthegenosis which looks for virgin births in animals have proved such cases in animals although rarely. As an Ahmadi I found this particular belief to be more coherent with natural world that Virgin Birth of Esa AS is indeed miracle which we dont get to see everyday but it is not beyond the natural Law of Allah and if it happened before then it can indeed happen again.

    Is raising dead or curing blinds are normal thing ?
    This above belief of yours has caused Islam a lot of trouble from Christians. Muslims have no reply to Christians when they tell you that Jesus AS gave life to death and Holy Prophet SAW nouzobillah could not even bring a book from heavens. Without getting in to too details of this topic. As an Ahmadi my belief in this regard is again very coherent as per Quran that no where in Holy Quran I see Allah raising dead men to allive in thier physcial format then how can a Prophet be able to do this. The solution is simple….he gave life to spiritul dead. More can be said on this topic but only if you want to.

    Same way why his flying away with angels is taken as very starnge thing.
    Indeed Allah is Qaadre Mutalliq, he can do anything, it would not have been strange for me only if Allah had not said in Holy Quran that his Soul is taken.

  77. Reply to Part 4

    My brother this particular verse I believe is for Shohadaa (Shaheed). I have very simple question to eleborate your question further.

    When we die what happens to us? Does our Soul remain alive in our grave to be called on the judgement day or will we be sent to Hell or Heaven straight away?

  78. I want to add on to the topic being discussed death of Jesus

    First ijma of the companion of Holy prophet PBUH was when Holy Prophet PBUH passed away and everyone was numb with grief. They couldn’t move or utter a word and some were affected by this so much that they died after few days. Hazrat Omar rz was in a shock and he made up his mind not to believe in Holy Prophet PBUH’s death. He took out his sword and announced that whoever said the Holy prophet PBUH was dead would lose his head. He started saying that Holy Prophet PBUH disappeared temporarily just like Moses had disappeared on a Call from God. Moses returned back to his people after 40 days and so would Holy Prophet PBUH and on his PBUH’s return he will ask those said unworthy things. He would put them to death. Hazrat Omar were very determined. None of the companion dared to resist or deny him. Infact some even persuaded Hazrat Omar rz’s declaration. They also started thinking that Holy Prophet PBUH had not die.

    Someone sent one of them out get Hazrat Abu Bakr rz who was out of Madina when Holy Prophet died. When this companion saw him, tears rolled down and Hazrat Abu Bakr understood and asked. “Has the Prophet died?”
    The companion confirmed the sad news and told Hazrat Abu Bakr that Hazrat Omar rz had been saying, “whoeve should say the Prophet had died would lose his head” When Hazrat Abu Bakr heard this he went to see Holy Prophet’s dead body. He bent down and kissed the Holy Prophet’s forehead and said; “By God, you will not suffer more than one death. The loss mankind have suffered by your death is greater than the loss they have suffered by the death of any other prophet. You need no praises, and mourning cannot reduce the pange of separation. If we could but avert your end, we would have done so, with our lives.”
    Hazrat Abu Bakr said this and left to find Hazrat Omar rz. Hazrat Abu Bakr asked Hazrat Omar to stop, who was still telling people that Holy Prophet PBUH didnt die and he only disappeared for a while.

    Hazrat Omar didnt stop but kept talking. Hazrat Abu Bakr turned to some companions and started telling them that Holy Prophet passed away. Some other companions turned to Hazrat Abu Bakr too and started listening. Hazrat Omar was compelled to listen to him too. That was when Hazrat Abu Bakr rz recited from Holy Quran, “The Holy Prophet was but a prophet. There had been prophets before him and they had all died. If he also should die or be put to death, would they turn back upon him” (Al imran 145)

    “Thou (O Muhammad) are surely going to die and they surely are going to die” (Al Zumar 31)

    O ye men, whoever amongst you worshipped Muhammad let him know that Muhammad is dead, and whoever amongst you worshipped Allah let him know that Allah is living there is no death for Him. (Bukhari, Vol 2, Chapter Manaqibe Abu Bakr)

    When Hazrat Abu Bakr rz recited the verses of the Holy Quran and pointed to their meaning the companions realised that Holy Prophet had died and they all began to cry. Hazrat Omar rz is reported to have said that Hazrat Abu Bakr recited the verses out of the Holy Quran it seemed as if these verses had been revealed on that day at that moment. His legs could no longer support him and he fell down with grief.

    Now this incident proves very important points

    1)I proves collective opinion of companions that all prophets before Holy Prophet pbuh had died. NO EXCEPTION. If companions who were present there had thought that some earlier prophet had not died they would have stood up and raised this point. They could have said that Jesus had been alive in Heaven for 600 years, so its wrong to say that all the earlier prophets had died. If some could remain alive than why not Holy Prophet?

    2)It proves that even though at the height of excitement and threatening to kill who would say Holy Prophet pbuh died, Hazrat Omar could only used the analogy of Moses who disappeared for 40 days. Even Hazrat Omar didn’t cite the analogy of Jesus. If the companions knew that Jesus is still alive in heaven couldn’t they or Omar have cited this analogy of Jesus?

    3)It also proves that earlier prophet had died was not a just their opinion but it was a truth based on Holy Quran and taught by Holy Prophet. Hazrat Abu Bakr used this verse “and there had been (other) prophets before him.” to prove the death of earlier prophets and the fact that the companions who heard this verse and heard Hazrat Abu Bakr, they remained silent.

  79. Reply to Part 5

    Yes Again Allah is Qaadre Mutalliq and he can do anything. But Allah says in Holy Quran that Jesus AS soul’s rafa has taken place ie he has died.

  80. wow amazing!!:D who ever wrote this debate:D

  81. we were having a good debate till the person we were having discussion with disappeared 😀 hehehe

    join me in silent prayer for his return 😉

    Thanks for visiting Qudsia 🙂


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